Rev. Christie Bates is a Licensed Professional Counselor and a Minister of the Embracing Simplicity Contemplative Order. When she launched Passati Counseling & Direction, her private practice, Christie had worked in residential treatment for over a decade, serving clients who faced substance and/or process addictions, eating disorders, mental illnesses, codependency and other forms of post-trauma distress. She has provided over 10K hours of Brainspotting, a powerful means of trauma processing, spiritual growth and creative expansion. In her private practice, Christie offers extended sessions, workshops and invitation-only Brainspotting retreats. She is committed to Weight Inclusive Care.
Rev. Christie Bates, Brainspotting Practitioner, Contemplative Minister
It has such a central place in your work, so let me start by asking, What is Brainspotting?
Brainspotting is a naturally occurring phenomenon in our neuro-experience that becomes more efficient and effective when we’re aware and attuned to it. It’s a phenomenon we can deliberately bring about through mindful awareness of eye position. Dr. David Grand discovered Brainspotting in 2003. Ever since, he and others have continued to develop new ways of Brainspotting that offer relief from trauma symptoms, improve performance, and further spiritual growth.
And how long have you been using Brainspotting yourself?
Since May 2013. I had just taken a position at a trauma-focused treatment center called The Ranch in Tennessee, U.S., to create their Contemplative Programming. In addition to mindfulness-training groups and retreats, my work involved sitting almost knee to knee with clients, helping them develop a tolerance and even appreciation for their present-moment experience. Their feelings were raw because they had deliberately set aside various coping and numbing mechanisms, so we also focused on developing self-compassion for the pain of that.
That same month, David Grand offered training in Brainspotting through the platform of Sounds True, who had just published his first book on the subject. If I remember correctly, it was several weeks long – mostly recorded, with a live component for the final class. I gained a glimpse of what Brainspotting could do, and using it helped my clients improve very quickly. In 2014, Dr. Grand released two DVD sets documenting full-length Brainspotting training for Phases 1 and 2. These gave me more tools to help clients who suffered from the most complicated trauma symptoms. Brainspotting has been the heart of how I approach my work ever since.
Do you approach your work in Spiritual Direction that way, too?
Absolutely. As I mentioned, Brainspotting is a naturally occurring phenomenon. If you take a moment, just a moment right now, to settle into prayer or meditation in a way that helps you feel most in touch with your connection to the Divine – or a source of wisdom, or even just to your own sense of truth or purpose – what do you notice about your eyes?
Well, I tend to close them.
Sure, that’s right. That’s fine. Anything else?
When I try to hone in on that spiritual sense, my eyes tend to go to a particular place.
Exactly. I help my spiritual direction clients take note of that and see what else happens. They also like to experiment with what happens when their eyes are open. Some people, whether church-goers who meditate on stained-glass windows or others who find their spiritual connection in the outdoors, have a more direct spiritual experience with eyes open – or “Shades Up,” as we call it in Brainspotting. Everyone's different.
It works whether your eyes are open or closed?
Yes, because Brainspotting is not about what you’re seeing: it’s about where you look. In other words, it’s about where the optic nerves are pointing. Even people without sight can do Brainspotting. What matters is the embodied awareness of where the eyes are oriented.
I’m curious about what led you to seek ordination as a minister because it sounds like you already had these fulfilling experiences of helping people as a counselor.
You’re exactly right about that: I was genuinely content as a contemplative therapist. When I undertook the two-year Dharmacharya program that my teachers offered, it was with my own learning and spiritual growth in mind. I loved my work, and it was very one-sided work.
You mean the support didn’t come back to you?
Not that, because clients aren't there to support us emotionally. There was plenty of mutual support among the clinical team.
When I say that my work was one-sided, I mean that the role of any therapist in a treatment center is very much the role of “The Expert.” There I was, with people who were students, parents, celebrities, or industry leaders outside of treatment: I was meeting them at the most vulnerable time of their lives, with their various roles set outside the door so that they could be human beings, heal their wounds, and reconnect with their authentic selves. Courageous people go into residential treatment because something on the outside is just not working anymore, and they feel very exposed.
In residential treatment, as a therapist, I had a degree of power-over just because – for example – I could get in my car and drive away without having to consult with anyone else. Meanwhile, the clients had to overcome numerous checkpoints to go. That's the setup of our healthcare system, and in most cases, the clients benefitted. But it was very lopsided in terms of my own personal development and spiritual growth. I was looking for a situation where I could be a “student” to balance out all those hours of being a “teacher.”
How did you find that situation?
Believe it or not, through social media! Someone shared a recording of Venerable Pannavati, a former Christian pastor turned Buddhist nun, who was ordained in the Theravada and Mahayana schools of Buddhism and was Co-Abbott of the Embracing Simplicity Contemplative Order. I had been in Christian church leadership in one way or another for much of my adult life, and I appreciated how she didn’t “throw the baby out with the bathwater.” She didn’t behave as if Christianity was a lesser path just because she was no longer identified with it: It was just a part of her path. I related to this. I loved that she was drawn into Dharma practice by her Christian practice yet she still respected that tradition. I loved her focus on mind cultivation as being based on meditation yet more than meditation. And I loved how she opened that recorded Dharma talk. I find myself singing it – either in my head or out loud – at least once a week:
Might all sentient beings,
Until they reach enlightenment,
Go for their refuge to
the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
By the virtues I possess,
Generosity and other perfections,
may I become a Buddha for
the benefit of all.
What does that mean to you?
I relate to Buddha as our capacity for awakening, Dharma as both reality and the path of awakening to reality, and Sangha as the community of fellow travelers along that path. Even before I knew the words, I had the feeling, "May I awaken for the benefit of all." Hearing Venerable Pannavati sing her commitment felt like a call toward the kind of instruction and inspiration I was looking for.
Did you connect with Venerable Pannavati right away?
It was quite a few months. As soon as I found her website, I found the Dharmacharya program she offered along with Venerable Pannadipa, the beloved monk who was the Co-Abbott. It took some time to write my application. Until I heard back about that application, I had to content myself with what few recordings were available at that time. And, of course, there were numerous other recordings and books from other Dharma teachers.
I didn’t fully understand at that point that the Dharmacharya training path would – or could – lead to ordination. What I knew was that it was a 2-year program that would hold me accountable for my development through daily practice and other “homework,” like study, written assignments, recorded Dharma talks, monthly check-ins with a cohort of practitioners, and a monthly 1-1 with my teachers. Additionally, there was the expectation to join them on retreat twice a year if at all possible.
There happened to be a change in secretaries for the Order when I applied, so there was some delay. Besides, monasteries rather famously don’t always do things on a schedule but “when the time ripens.” It was almost a year before I heard back, but the timing was good. I got word on my 50th birthday that I was the first person accepted to the 2014-2016 Dharmacharya cohort. That felt very auspicious to me.
How did going through the Dharmacharya program affect you and your work with people?
The effect on me was profound. First of all, to experience a friendship with two elders in monastic robes was invigorating in a way that is hard to explain. Their lives, down to what they wore, were thoroughly dedicated to freedom from suffering and meeting the needs of people in their community. They relied on the community's generosity to support them without solicitation. It was an expression of faith in the Buddhist sense of the word – not trying to make yourself believe something you can't, but a trust you can only get from experience.
Another profound experience I had with my teachers was their naming me during my ordination ceremony. In Buddhism, a Dharma name is something to grow into, a potential that your teacher sees for you. Venerable Pannadipa named me Passatininna, which they translated as “one who sees clearly, or deeply.” They hadn’t heard about Brainspotting as far as I knew, but they must have had some intuition for it!
My work – already deeply enjoyable – was elevated. My life during those two years was like a meditation retreat in the middle of everyday life. I developed momentum in my practice and a sense of emotional balance that became a reservoir of confidence. With that kind of confidence, I could sit knee to knee and heart to heart with my clients, trusting their own brains to be the experts on themselves. As a Brainspotting practitioner, the Dharmacharya training allowed me to serve as a mirror – not having to have all the answers for someone else.
I can hear the spiritual fulfillment that the Dharmacharya gave you. Was that focus the thing that prompted you to go fully in the direction of private practice?
Gosh, no. I had not planned to leave residential treatment. I loved the work and being part of a clinical team. I used to wish our clients could be flies on the wall sometimes, listening to us cheer over their progress or grapple with how to help them. I used to think they’d never feel unloved again if they could see that.
What triggered the move to private practice was much more practical: I had a grandchild on the way! She would be born in north Mississippi, and I knew I would want more family balance again. During the years I had begun working in treatment centers, my two children were starting to launch, so that had been less of an issue for a few years. Now, I would want to be more available again for family connection. I didn’t want to be on call for acute crises anymore. That's when I opened Passati Counseling & Direction.
Was it scary to make that change?
In one sense, no. One of the blessings of having worked for a substantial amount of time in two different treatment centers is that I knew people always needed resources for people coming out of treatment. I got busy so quickly that I didn’t have time to get worried about having enough work.
The part that had seemed scary before I went out on my own was the loss of a treatment team. I was pleasantly surprised that with a little effort, that feeling can still exist in collaborating with other professionals. They’re just a phone call away instead of right down the hall.
During the first year of private practice, something beautiful started happening. Clients who had been out of treatment for several years heard through their networks or their recovery meetings that I was now available for therapy or spiritual direction, and they sought me out. Most of them were people who had had some spiritual/emotional progress when they first went through treatment – not just through meditation with me, of course, but I was one of the faces of that time in their lives. Many of them were now ready to go beyond that early recovery phase of 2-5 years, to take their next steps into emotional sobriety or creative expansion, to continue to recover that Authentic Self. It's been an honor.
That’s the second time you’ve used the phrase, Authentic Self. What is an authentic self, and how does one find it?
Authentic Self is not a thing. It’s a process, a way of experiencing life so that its value is evident without explanation, without justification.
The value of Life, or the value of oneself?
Yes. (laughs) I mean, “Both.” Think about this: when you are completely immersed in play with a puppy, a baby, or a creative project, there’s no fretting about whether all of this pain we go through in life is worth it. The value is evident in the dynamic connection between yourself and whatever you’re giving your attention to.
Authentic Self is sort of a psycho-spiritual way of referring to the ongoing experience of this dynamic connection. Ironically, that dynamic connection is usually experienced in a way that is not self-referential in the conventional sense. Not that we experience it perfectly or consistently all the time.
As far as how we find it, this is where it can be helpful to pay attention to how different religious traditions refer to the Authentic Self, even if we’re not religious in a formal way. In the Christian scripture, it is voiced as “Christ in you, your hope of glory.” In Buddhist traditions, one can hear it as “Buddha nature,” which is the potential for awakening that all sentient beings carry, or as the potential of “Bodhicitta,” which is best understood as “the good heart.” In creative circles, we might call it “being in flow.”
In all of these traditions, you’ll notice that the Authentic Self is what we might call a pre-existing condition. It’s not something we have to find. Much less would it be something that we make up. It’s something that we uncover or recover when our distance from that "good heart" becomes too painful. We are motivated to recover our Authentic Self when we realize that the way we live is taking us further and further from that experience of being connected to ourselves and others.
What is the difference between counseling and spiritual direction when it comes to Authentic Self?
In terms of where we’re headed long-term, I frankly don’t see a difference. That is a bias I have. I believe that all of suffering springs from misunderstanding the nature of self.
There can be a difference, though, in where we start. We might be so out of touch with ourselves that it's painful or dangerous. Other times, we may be "high-functioning" by the world's standards but still feel the pain of disconnection from our true selves.
This leads to different professional scenarios. For instance, there have been times when a colleague, another therapist, will send me a client to offer that client some spiritual direction specifically for self-compassion training or to use Brainspotting to help them make a particular decision. In that case, they're still going to stick with the therapist they already know and trust for counseling and come to me for the spiritual aspect when they feel the need.
There have also been times when someone from far away has heard an old podcast episode or another recorded talk of mine and reached out for spiritual direction. In those cases, people often already have a therapist or medical provider. If they don’t have a licensed provider, I assess whether they need that help.
Suppose they don’t need counseling, then great. We’ll do the spiritual direction work together. If they do need mental health assistance, I ask them to get that in their home state and allow me to collaborate with that provider while I support them with spiritual direction.
Often, of course, someone in a state where I’m licensed for counseling will reach out for counseling. That doesn't mean the spiritual aspect is unimportant to them. Maybe the fact that I’m also a contemplative minister is intriguing to them: Many people have long intended to learn more about Buddhism, and my website offers free resources to help them do that. Other counseling clients here in the southern U.S. have suffered religious trauma, but they care deeply about spirituality. In that case, the fact that I'm "bilingual" in spiritual background is reassuring to them.
In all cases, I know that “the thing in them that knows exactly what they need” – which we all have inside of us – has brought my clients to me. They yearn to discover or recover who they are. Some of them say that out loud, others might not. With Brainspotting, they find themselves able to access something greater, and that arises from being connected to whatever is authentic to them.
You told Alex at BRAINZ that the invitation to collaborate with the magazine as an Executive Contributor came at a good time. Why is that?
I shouldn’t be amazed by this after some of the life experiences I’ve had, but it does amaze me how perfect the timing was! Some changes were happening in how I conducted private practice right at the time that I first heard from the magazine.
For background: About a year after I began private practice, I felt strongly guided to move to Mississippi to live near my daughter and granddaughter. A year later, just as I’d gotten established in Mississippi, and my Tennessee clients and I had adjusted to working online, COVID arrived. As with almost every therapist I know, the demand for counseling grew even higher than it was before. There was also a high demand for online training for therapists, which I was able to provide, so things were especially busy for several years.
In the month or so before BRAINZ reached out to me, I was experiencing a shift. A good number of my clients were no longer in survival mode, having already cleared a great deal of trauma they’d been carrying in their bodies. They still benefited, though, from the creativity, relational, and spiritual growth aspects of Brainspotting. Meanwhile, I’d had several years of experience offering meditation retreats and workshops before COVID-19, and I missed the in-person retreat experiences. I wanted to find a way to incorporate those back into my life more regularly.
That's why, when BRAINZ contacted me, I was beginning to transition away from a primary focus on weekly one-hour therapy appointments and encouraging clients to come less frequently for longer sessions. Some of my Tennessee folks even traveled to Mississippi for a few days to do extended Brainspotting sessions in person. In this new way of working, instead of coming every week or two, they would wait a bit and get in touch when they were ready for more. This was great because it allowed me to provide care to new clients without crowding the schedule.
I began offering invitation-only Brainspotting-focused meditation retreats for small groups – 8 or 10 people at a time – which have been so valuable to people that I offer two or three such retreats each year. My commitment to attendees is that all participants are people I know and have had some experience with Brainspotting. That way, we can get right into practice when the retreat begins, and all participants can know they’re safe.
Of course, sometimes people I don’t know yet hear about these retreats by word of mouth, which is great. Before attending, they invest in several sessions with me so that they get to experience Brainspotting, and I can see if they are ready for a weekend-long retreat.
I still keep a few spots open for seeing people weekly or bi-weekly in the conventional 50-minute session, which I still love. But it feels good to have resources to offer people as they continue to grow.
How do people contact you for counseling or spiritual direction?
Thank you for asking! I receive requests for counseling or spiritual direction through my website, email, or voicemail. I return queries within the next business day. I also offer support through various articles and donation-based meditation groups.
